threegee

"A Ukip voter didn't say something. He published it on a web forum." Ah, yes, playing semantics! I'm not a monarchist, and I suspect they are a very depleted breed these days. Though - like most I'd suggest - I see no advantage in other than a little tweaking to the existing order. Too many, and too many hangers on seems to be the general view. But, it's one the royals get and adjustments to accord with public opinion are constantly being made. They always have, and that's why they are still there. The alternatives to a titular monarch don't look too appetising. I'd suggest that's why Australia and Canada have come to more or less a similar conclusion, excepting that they get theirs on the very cheap - always a good proposition, eh Scotland? Let's skip the archaic definitions of treason and look at a transatlantic one (complete with transatlantic spelling). Taking the 21st century definition of sovereign and sovereignty I think that pretty much describes what our politicos have been up to. Or, let's take the Wikipedia one: Let's look at what the last person charged with treason got up to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Joyce Possibly the only person in British history to be convicted of any serious offence because a document - that he wasn't entitled to anyway - was judged not to have expired, though it actually had! Compare and contrast with the real treasonous acts of the present lot! "I do not care as long as they leave me alone" What we all wish for, but they can't and they won't! In fact with the EU we have uber bureaucracy that believes it has a right to intrude on every aspect of our lives by diktat. Legislation isn't driven by any obvious need, but at the whim of unelected mandarins who believe that they can anticipate what is best for us - post-democracy! There's no future opt out possible, and no leave me alone, if you foolishly sit there and allow it to happen.

Amazing how any Ukip voter saying anything automatically becomes party policy. Is the same principal applied to other parties? Is anyone concerned for the Queen because many Labour supporters (including Sym) want her deposed? The logical gymnastics the left goes through to put words into other people's mouths is amazing. Like for instance NF pointing out the traffic jams on the motorway were an obvious consequence of a country that was seriously under-invested in infrastructure given its population ambitions, being contorted into a rant against immigrants. He never said anything of the sort - and neither for that matter did I! You own that illogical extension not me - and it's packaged with the standard hint of Reductio ad Hitlerum. AAMOF I'm seriously against the death penalty for anything. Too many past mistakes by our judiciary for one thing. What I said was the prospect not the enactment. And, it's not a matter of disagreement, it's the reality that the lying toads are very likely guilty of high treason by the standards of our existing law. That law that applies to you and me, and that will be invoked when it suits the establishment, but law that doesn't apply to the Westminster elites - who clearly consider themselves above it! Now please tell everyone why you might suppose that Clegg etc. are not guilty of high treason? That could take the form of some logical reasons as to why we are involved in the EU, and explaining what democratic mandate our politicos have for constantly subverting our legal rights and constitution (whilst lying to us that this isn't in fact happening).

The way the salami-slicing EU has always operated - lies and deceit all the way. So... how about a Gestapo too? Ah, yes, "a full in/out referendum if there is any proposed transfer of power". But not of course the transfers of power that are enacted without anyone noticing. How can the UK public be so mind-numbingly gullible, and would our parent's and their parent's generations have been taken in by this? Somehow I think not. There has to be a prima facie case here for high treason against many of our politicos. I do hope I'm right in believing that it's the one thing the death penalty still applies to. Because, facing a dangling noose is the only prospect we've got that Nick Clegg etc. will ever be persuaded to tell the truth about anything!

Who is ordering the blancmange? They're calling Dave's bluff! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11455163/TV-election-debates-will-go-ahead-as-broadcasters-threaten-to-empty-chair-David-Cameron.html He's getting off the hook with directly facing Nigel Farage though. But, the establishment media are likely more than happy to conceded that one.

That "fat man" is some good after all! Ten minutes to ticket; will this mean a fall in revenue as every second of grace is exploited? I feel an App coming on!

Get used to it, he's the Blue Labour future for sure. And, after cast-iron-promise Dave spins his final porkie, it'll be our Theresa facing Chukkie. Not sure what colour that'll make the Tories - probably ocelot! But, I think Cleggie is first in line for the chop. He really needs to be signing on at the dole right now, but who the... would employ him?. Oh yeah, the European Commission owe him a gong! Can I suggest the Quisling Cross (double variety)?

He's billed as the next Labour leader. Britain's answer to O'Barmy. And.. he's a true democrat who subscribes to the capitalist middle-way. When communist shill Miliband inevitably screws up "Blue Labour" is getting ready to pick up the pieces and present us with a New Old New Labour - this time they'll get it right, you'll see! Britain will finally have its multi-cultural, centrist party that will be all things to all people, led by its very own O'Barmy clone. For now keep quiet and keep the knives sharpened, it could cost us the election. Confused? You will be! But is Chukka really a democrat? Well, he claims to be: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11452752/Chukka-Umunna-Britain-is-no-saint-and-cannot-lecture-China-about-democracy.html And, of course, in true left wing apologist fashion he apologises for our evil past. Always imposing a modern mindset on history, and conveniently ignoring that we led the world into democracy, liberal thinking, and dragged it out of the middle ages - plus huge chunks of it out of outright savagery. But is Chukka the genuine article? I mean is he a real democrat, as he protests? I wonder about the role of the prince of darkness in all this, the king of post-democracy. No, I'm not talking about Teflon Tony, but fool if you think he won't be back when the time is right. My guess is that any correlation between democracy as we know it and Blue Labour is very weak.

But you've just implied that you didn't try my suggestion. Try it! I didn't say it gave you access to deeper levels on the subscription tree - to publish that would probably be um.. illegal. It's one of the simple ways to bypass their very annoying three article lockout, to allow you infinite lives reading normal content, and without registering or receiving all the nags and spam. You can find the headlines to copy/paste here: http://www.ft.com/intl/uk-edition No need to visit cluttered homepage. Rather than manually copy/paste - with Firefox - you can simply highlight and right click, then select search Google for...

It's only for the non-net savvy! Yes, you are going to kick yourself.. Simply paste "nigel farage vows to scrap tax on minimum wage" into google and Big G will provide you with access. Same method applies to any Eff Tee article they won't let you read. pssst... don't tell anyone!

Are you sure the policy isn't racist too? Everything else seems to be! In the pie in the sky socialist paradise it may be possible for all kids to be philosophy students or artists, but that doesn't put bread on anyone's tables. If everyone went to university we'd all starve! Having redefined racist to mean someone you disagree with, you are now attempting to redefine discrimination in relation to common sense economics and giving kids a real future with good earnings prospects! By and large kids don't know what career to pursue - I certainly didn't, and was torn two or three times. A lot of the time they're simply echoing their (often left-wing) teacher's aspirations. They don't have the depth of experience to make much of a choice, or indeed vote rationally (the fact that many adults don't either is quite another matter! ). This, of course, is why it's always "a good thing" to lower the voting age, even though kids will near universally tell you that they have better things to do. The Country needs more practical people (you know the ones who can do, and not the head-in-the-air kind) whether they come through university, technical college, or apprenticeship. So a responsible government should be encouraging that, and not spending our money on producing any more people to chase jobs that don't actually exist, and never will exist. Building aspirations in the full knowledge that they will only be cruelly dashed is what I consider to be applying "obnoxious standards".

I'm not certain if you are going to actually read this Tony, or indeed follow the logic, but I'm going to write it anyway. Let's compare this to chess. A game I'm not good at, maybe because I've never invested any time in it, or maybe because I'm not as bright as most. The game is deceptively simple though, because the rule set is simple and just about anyone can see what's a valid move and what's a wrong'un. That early perception of simplicity is flawed though, because you need to learn to spot developing patterns, and their inevitable outcomes. Whoops I've spotted a simple pattern here. It goes: Minimum wage good (because it's the perfectly obvious way address the problem of low pay) --> I will ask the question what are you going to do about it (because I know I will get an answer I want) --> I will use that to illustrate that only my side hold the moral high ground (and that by implication your side is bad) --> If other side even suggests that I'm wrong, being the upholder of morality, I will attempt to demonise them as positively evil! --> Win argument (feel better about my self, and confirm my own delusions)! But, I'm afraid that's just tawdry socialism in full flow. There are two classes of socialists: those who don't think things through, and those who seek to exploit this for their own social advancement and gain! The first kind need an education in the university of life, and the second kind should be shot for exploiting their fellow man in a much more devious way than any "filthy capitalist" would! I'm being charitable here and am going to suggest that you are the first kind - one of the silly exploited. I've set out a logical explanation for why increasing the minimum wage won't achieve the primary role of putting real money into the pockets of the lowest paid. And, if you can't be arsed to deploy a counter argument then tough, and sorry - I win the argument! Those are the rules of civilised debate, and not the rules of the Lefty bully boys (and blue-haired communist slags) who seek to shout people down, limit the range of debate, and redefine the dictionary. I've also linked you to a Financial Times page which sets out Ukip official policy. That's because I'm not a spokesperson, just someone who has arrived at more or less the same conclusions by using MY OWN head! Try using yours Tony, and stop exploiting your fellow citizens, or at best being complicit in that exploitation! They are not quite as simple as the ruling elites (those truly "obnoxious" people of the mainstream parties) take them for! Oh, and any chance of getting this thread back on to the original topic of WHY are we in the EU? Though we do know what Labour's policy is there: quickly change the subject!

Would surely be, if we were arguing about the Higgs Boson.

So you'll be back with another pay demand in the Summer when the members finally work out how much poorer they'll be in retirement? The problem with a minimum wage is that someone has to pay it, and no one wants the indignity of being on it however high it is ("maintaining wor differentials" as it used to be)! So what happens is that people demand wages they don't really need (hey, you just said it!), and as a result jobs are destroyed - well, those jobs that aren't being filled by illegals anyway. Ukip's policy of putting more money into the pockets of the low paid, by removing it from the pockets of the European ruling elites is cash positive for this country, not trade and jobs negative. And, you are doubly stuffed because even more EU citizens flock here and take the better paid jobs, thus putting further burden on the NHS and other infrastructure; hiking house prices even further for first time buyers, and... need I go on? There is no free lunch! Well.. there is if you "work" for the Brussels machine. Answer me one straight question Tony: WHY are we in the EU? I can provide you with the answers if you are stuck.

The link was provided on post #98 on this thread. Did you miss it because you were so keen to learn about why Harriet Yeo was so P'd off with her position as a TU president? Tell us if you support Ukip's policy to help the low paid (it will be expensive), and what you think of the two Ed's £2BN tax grab at your member's pensions?

The longer you use the Internet the more you appreciate that there's very little new. Things go in two or three year cycles. That just occurred to me when I saw this hot off the press story on the Indy website. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-homer-simpson-discovered-the-higgs-boson-over-a-decade-before-scientists-10079006.html But, I had an inkling that I'd seen it before. In fact I had - a couple of years back. http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/10/29/the_simpsons_and_fermat_s_last_theorem_wizard_of_evergreen_terrace_has_brilliant.html So, this sparked my curiosity as to whether there was an older mention. Well, yes... https://spinor.info/weblog/?p=1591 ...almost five years ago now, and the Independent has used just about the same picture. I know the Indy is going down the tubes, but it could at least have provided linkage to other's material, like the Beeb does.

LOL I spotted the title and was just about to post a couple of recommendations for a good cheap "forst" one! Far too long ago. Woodbines or was it Players? Down the woods - of course! Never became a real smoker. Have a pretty clear mental picture of cigarette packs in Bachii's window though; must be from the mid 1950's. Ah, no, I remember menthol things with a (green?) band on the packet. The name escapes me. Yay!! I remembered the slogan and goggled on it! Way way before decimalisation though. Would buy those at one of the general dealers I'd imagine. Under-age needless to say.

Damn, I've just realised! That's what Tory/Labour dirty tricks are now up to! They are plotting to fit-up a member with the Suzy Lamplugh disappearance!

I don't think we'd be able to get way with that without changing our name to the-united-union-of-bedlington.co.uk

I find Hamilton a bit greasy, and you'll probably find lots of other Kippers who do to. But if there's the slightest provable allegation he'll be out on his ear. I think he knows this too. But, he's not Ukip, and he's not in office, and AFAIK he's not even a candidate. Would the LP expel someone without a provable allegation? Labour is sheltering numerous BNP members, and has even given them office. Ukip decided to reject these people many years ago as undesirables, but can't remove historic ones who have always behaved impeccably. What have you got to say about Straw? And what about all those (6?) Labour MPs who were actually convicted in the courts? Not just dual standards here Tony, a complete denial of Labour's position right at the centre of establishment graft!

What smacks of denial? Why do people hold Ukip to far higher standards than LibLabCon? A few days back you'd have been claiming Jack Straw was a paragon of virtue, but we now know that he's got his nose in the trough just like the rest of them. Nige had a prior commitment to fill and has been back for days now. Did anyone ask what Lavery was doing junketing in the USA? Despite all the establishment propaganda NF is a totally straight and committed guy. What you see is what you get. He doesn't need to mentally filter every word, and he doesn't need to evade questions, because he has no hidden agenda, and truly believe what he says. He doesn't need the money, and he doesn't need the hassle. He simply wants to save our country from a federal Europe. The establishment is very very threatened by him, and they are deeply into dirty tricks and misinformation. That's a provable reality! I feel strongly about the EU because I too was duped by that excuse for a human being Ted Heath at formative time in my life, and I really resent it. I can understand what a large section of the Tory party is doing supporting the EU, but Labour's involvement is sinister. Of course TB wanted to be Mr Europe, but there's far more to it than that. The key here is Mandelson's post-democracy. If you are looking for a Machiavelli then look there.

I'm not aware that Neil Hamilton is standing for anywhere, and he's certainly not the deputy leader! The deputy leader is university history lecturer Paul Nutall who really knows his stuff! But I do know that despite lots of scrutiny Hamilton has never been found guilty of anything. Roger Bird is a really nice guy, and is entirely innocent. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/23/ukip-general-secretary-roger-bird-cleared-sexual-harassment-natasha-bolter-inquiry The Boulter incident was a LP set-up. Not readily provable of course, but her story has been entirely discredited. Fortunately he kept all her emails, and they are there for you to read if you care to search for them. In any event, being an honourable guy he stood down to avoid any embarrassment. No, he's not suspended, nor is he standing, or holding any office at present. I'm told our local candidate is a brilliant lady, though I haven't met her yet. She's a miner's daughter from Stakeford, not one of your bussed-in politicos who has never had a real job. She will make a brilliant MP, worlds away from the dummy we are currently saddled with. If Ukip hold the balance of power, then at long last we'll have a real voice for real change. Even if that doesn't happen neither Tory nor Labour would ever take us for granted again! Electing her is a no-brainer for anyone who puts our local community before dumb party loyalty. It really doesn't matter if you agree with absolutely all the policies or not. https://www.facebook.com/Ukipwansbeckbranch/photos/a.532643526822581.1073741829.503112893108978/693655104054755/

Yup, now that there's a real alternative we are all going to have to get used to lots of defections. Minimum wage: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/274a1f20-44c0-11e4-bce8-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3TAY8MYIE Note, that one is fully funded. We don't have to rob people's pensions for it. I hear there's a lot of unrest in the union movement about the two Ed's pension grab which will affect a lot of trade-unionists. Unsurprising, since they had no idea where they were going to get the cash from to fill their tuition fee bribe last week, and have been pushed into a quick back of a fag packet decision.

Would that be good old Oswald Mosley Tony? Went off the rails didn't he? Started off as a Tory and steadily became more and more politically extreme to end up.... Oh! Conservative Party (1918–1922) Independent (1922–1924; 1940–1948) Labour Party (1924–1931) New Party (1931–1932) British Union of Fascists (1932–1940) Union Movement (1948–1973) Isn't that Miliband's federal European Union by a slightly different moniker?

No? Thought not!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308658/How-Barbies-body-size-look-real-life-Walking-fours-missing-half-liver-inches-intestine.html