Canny lass

Are there any other memories of the miner's strike apart from the political issues? I remember it well for several reasons. I was working as a ward sister at the time and can still vividly recall two patients, both men in their late 70's, who were admitted with severe hypothermia due to not having any coal to light the fire at home. Both were retired miners. It was a tragic sight. The other thing I remember were my nurses on the ward. Many of them were miner's wives. They were hungry due to lack of food and tired due to lack of sleep caused by worry. They were continually upset that their Children were also hungry and going to school without breakfast. They were sad to see their husbands becoming shadows of their former selves due to the stress of the strike and what it was doing to the family. Many voiced opinions about the strike to me that they didn't dare admit to their husbands. I tried to see that their was Always food on the ward for them while they were at work by ordering the full quota of patient meals, even if their wasn't a full quota of patients, and their are quite a few Children who got some sort of breakfast thanks to all the extra bread, jam and cornflakes that we ward sisters stocked up with and then turned a blind Eye when it disappeared.

Thank you everyone for your very kind wishes. I spent a pleasant morning shovelling snow and a pleasant afternoon dancing around the Xmas tree with the grandchildren, followed by the family plundering the tree of everything that's edible, as is the custom here every year on 13th January. I actually managed to get a Cadbury's chocolate bell! Oh the sheer luxury! Happy memories. Foxy, I don't mind all these Candles. I feel that I'm doing this household a service by keeping the lighting bills down. I'm also doing the environment a service in causing less trees to be cut down to provide Wood to heat the house. Eggy, my crossing out and underlining problems are a thing of the past. If only someone with the right know-how could solve the new problems of mid-sentence capital letters popping up here and there, as well as my not being able to quote anyone, then this old woman would be very happy. Thanks again to everybody.

2.10 am, Ex.B, not 10am

Those people who Think you are a Geordie, based on your speech, may not be too falling too short of the mark, Adam. There are many definitions of what a Geordie is. My own belief has Always been that a Geordie is someone born within spitting distance of the Tyne - North bank or South bank. Symptoms, on the other hand, favours a definition that bestows this name only on those who are born on the North bank within hockling distance (slightly more difficult I would imagine). Then there's the traditional scots way of thinking about Geordies -they're just scots with their Brains bashed oot! I don't think there's any research based definition of what a Geordie is. However, when it comes to Geordie - the dialect - there is a wealth of research that describes it's various features and where it's spoken. Myself, I've never been able to hear any difference between my own dialect and that of someone from the banks of the Tyne but having said that, I have to admit that I haven't met too many from the North bank but have had a great deal of Contact with south bank dwellers and they talked just like me except for the odd word. Fortunately there are linguists who have studied it in depth and not too far in the distant past, so their findings are still very relevant. One of Britains leading linguists is David Crystal. He's a former professor of linguistics at Reading University and he was awarded an OBE in 1995 for his services to the study and teaching of the English language. His work has been widely published in over 40 volumes, so I think we can assume that he knows what he's talking about. He has this to say about the Geordie dialect: "The area around the R. Tyne, in NE England, and dominated by Newcastle, has a wide range of dialect features, often summed up in the label 'Geordie' (a Scottish nickname for George). This dialect area extends throughout Northumberland,and shares several features with Southern Scots". (Crystal, D. 1999:The Cambridge Encyclopedia of The English Language. Cambridge, Cambridge University Press. p 326) So, while the physical being, a Geordie, confines itself, by birthright and spitting ability, to the banks of the Tyne, the Geordie dialect does not. Chances are that we are all using it to some degree. Crystal goes on to describe some of the grammatical features of the dialect. These grammatical features are often more reliable than the vocabulary as the grammar of a language changes very slowly in comparison to the vocabulary, where words come and go at an alarming rate. In particular he describes some changes in the irregular verb system which appear to be unique for the Geordie dialect. He describes 21 irregular verbs which, in various dialects can be used in a non-standard manner in various urban dialects, including Geordie. He also describes 4 variations which are distinctive to the Geordie dialect area. These verbs are: treat, come, run, see and shrink. How much Geordie are you speaking? Test yourself: When speaking your own dialect to someone who speaks the same dialect, which of the following would you say: A. He tret his mother very badly. B. He treated his mother very badly. A. He's tret her badly for years. B. He's treated her badly for years. A. I come to see him last week B. I came to see him last week. A. They had came to see me the week before. B. They hade come to see me the week before. A. He run away wi the next door neighbour's wife. B. He ran a way wi the next door neighbour's wife. A. He had ran away with her sister last year. B. he had run away with her sister the year Before. A. A seen im last week in Blyth. B. A saw im last week in Blyth. A. A'd saw him a month ago in Morpeth. B. A'd seen him a month ago in Morpeth. A. I'm sorry pet. Ya frock shrunk in the washing. B. I'm sorry pet. Ya frock shrank in the washing. A. Did you say me frock had shrank in the washing? B. Did you say me frock had shrunk in the washing? Well? How much Geordie are you speaking in Bedlington? You'll find the answer on my profile. You may just be surprised. I know I was.

Pitmatic would be nearer the mark, Adam. It's Lovely isn't it!

Adam, I am quite certain that you don't speak a Northumbrian dialect. That's a traditional, rural dialect and as such it doesn't belong in the Bedlington area - assuming that anybody is still speaking it nowadays. Your dialect is more likely to be a modern, urban dialect - or even a hybrid. ( I'm assuming you were born and raised in the area). I'm in Gothenburg tomorrow, I'll pop into the English faculty at the uni and see what the British linguists are saying about dialects in the North East. I'll get back to you on it.

I remember Osgathorpe well. He married me to my first hubby. I've never forgiven him!

Hope you stay 'wound up' for a long time to come HPW. I love your stories!

"I talk with a Northumberland "sort" of" dialect (have yet to get the exact sort of dialect)" but if I'm on the phone in a council meeting, job interview, etc. I talk Standard English but somethings the Northumberland comes out" Well there you go, Adam. Aren't you being a bit hard on 'non-North easters' who can't pin-point your exact geographic origins when they hear you speak? Stop being irritated by them and instead be proud that you've retained enough of the North-East dialect (and North-East accent, when you speak standard English) that they can recognise which area you are from.

Adam and Brian, sorry but I'm unable to use the quote function. It appears to have been sacrificed in order to rid me of my underlining and crossing out problems. Don't get upset when anyone (other than a Sunderland supporter) calls you a geordie. As far as I know there are no visible distinguishing features that differentiate a geordie from a cockney or a brummy, so I'm assuming that they are making the deduction based on what they are hearing - your dialect or, more probably, your accent. There are no hard and fast boundaries among dialects. Many dialects share common features. This is particularly evident among neighbouring dialects and in the case of the North East dialects that's not so strange. They all originated from the language of the Angles, who occupied the whole area. In linguistic circles ALL of the North East dialects were previously grouped together under the name 'Northumbrian'. It's an outdated name now. Early linguists drew the Dividing line between northern and Southern dialects roughly from the river Humber to the River Ribble so, surprisingly, even the scots dialect was classed as northern. In the late 1940s through to the early 1960s there was a huge survey of English dialects (the Dieth-Orton Survey). It was based on rural communities and the researchers found that the North/South boundary had moved much further South - the Dividing line running diagonally south west from Humberside to the South Midlands. In other words, many dialect features of the North east were now being Heard way outside of the Northumberland area. They also found that very few people spoke traditional dialects. Since then there have been a number of smaller studies and these have been based on urban- rather than rural communities. That's good, because industrialization brought with it urbanisation and this has influenced dialects enormously. These later studies reflect the ever increasing mobility of the population and the changing social structure. People move about more, class barriers have diminished and dialects and sociolects are able to rub shoulders with each other on a Daily basis. They rub off on each other. That's progress - or decay, depending how you look at it. Very few people today speak a Northumbrian dialect. I will be very surprised if you do. Most speak standard English with a North East accent. My guess is that you do too. When a 'southerner' says you're a geordie he 's not aware of the fine Dividing lines that northerners themselves impose upon the North East dialect (as it's called today). He's only aware of certain dialectal features assosciated with the North East and the name of a prominent north east city. The Word 'geordie is intranationally accepted to mean 'of or belonging to the North East of England'. Ask a handful of northerners which dialect a Londoner speaks and the odds are they'll all answer Cockney - even if it was only spoken in a very small area of the city and today is spoken by very few. Cockney, to a northerner, is synonomous with London dwellers - all of them. While you're at it ask them to tell you the differences between Geordie and Northumbrian. I doubt if any of them will be able to enlighten you about any differences in the language itself, only the area they think it comes from. Don't be offended by people who call you a geordie. Be proud that they've recognised that you come from the Norh East.

My mother used those Words too, Eileen.

oxters = armpits

It's in no way 'posh', Vic. It's standard English - which every Child in Britain is taught in school. Standard English is in fact also a dialect - a dialect that is used as the institutionalized norm in a Community. It usually has a bit of prestige, because it's used in administrative institutions, but isn't posh. Standardization is not, as many seem to Think, a result of the influences of BBc and other media. Standardization of the English language started way back in the 11th century. That standard English has it's roots in a Southern county dialect isn't a matter of that dialect being deliberately chosen to represent the Enlish language. It just happened. There have been a great many influences at work over the centuries in making standard English what it is today. Prior to the Norman conquest the Brits used west saxon to communicate but after the Norman conquest, 1066, the seat of power moved from Winchester to London and most changes in the language started to emerge then and continued doing so for the next 300 years. By the mid 14th Century the growth of a standardized English from the London area can be seen in many old documents. The dialect in London at that time was really a mixture of several dialects and the central Londoner's way of speaking was influenced by the Essex-, Westminster- and Middlesex dialects but little by little these merged into one dialect. Most of the Changes that we can see relate to London's development as the political, social and Commercial centre of Britain. (The same can be said for most, if not all, 'standard' languages in Europé. They all have their origins in the dialect of the area which became 'the seat of power'). That's not so strange when you Think about it. That's where the Money was. In the case of English, the most significant influence was probably the setting up of the administrative offices of the London Chancery. Thanks to them, huge amounts of documents were hand-copied in and around London and many standardizations emerged thanks to the Chancery scribes. These standardizations spread among other scribes who worked privately and soon many other types of texts began to include their standardizations. It was only a short step then to the ultimate standardization that was necessary when Caxton set up his Printing press - also in the London area of Westminster. That's a very potted version of the major influences. There are of course many other influences at work, even today. Language is a living thing, it's constantly changing, it will Always be changing. It's Always trying to find ways of refining the process of Communication and there is nothing we can do to stem the tide of language change. Some see these Changes as progress and others see them as a sort of decay. We can't stop it. If we could then we would all still be speaking like Chaucer. I can understand Symptoms feelings about how it sounds to try speaking posh but often it's done without any conscious awareness and most often to aid Communication. Of course it can sound odd to hear a northern, or any other, accent (the vowelsounds and melody of a dialect) imposed on a Southern dialect. It's like hanging an easter egg on a Christmas tree - not quite what we are used to. But it's not wrong If it aids Communication and sense of identity/belonging it can never be wrong, only different.

Thanks Malcolm! It's 10 years ago. Just shows how much I know about what's going on back home. Hallelujah for sites like Bedders!

I don't know either CBS or Robson Green and I've never Heard them speak so I don't really know what Symptoms means, when he says "it sounds fake". There's a northern expression, "putting it on", which I've Heard people use when referring to people who are deemed to behaving in a manner above their station - so to speak. The same expression can be used when speaking of changing the way you speak. I wonder if this is what you meant - that they speak in a manner which we would normally connect with a higher social class? In that case we're not talking about dialects but sociolects. A sociolect has nothing to do with geographic origins, unless the speaker is adopting Another dialect to fit in with a Group for example a Geordie who moves to Yorkshire and starts to speak with a Yorkshire dialect at work but retains his Geordie dialect at home with the wife. Much depends on the context in which speech Changes are made. There are individuals who change their way of speaking several times a day depending on who they are talking to. They make these Changes for several reasons: to aid Communication: Changes in speed of talking, dialectal reduction/removalto show their sense of belonging, or wanting to belong to, a certain Group: adopting dialectal features, use of jargon (especially in the working environment), use of slang and swear words (in certain age Groups and social Groups)to diminish a sense of dialectal inferiorityto increase a sense of dialectal superiorityAll of these Changes can be made by conscious effort on the part of the speaker but they can also occur naturally, triggered by something in the situation. . We have to take into consideration the context in which the Changes are made. For example, a speaker with a strong Northumbrian dialect, who speaks broad dialect at home, at work and in social situations can change his speech to aid Communication when speaking to a doctor because it's important that the doctor understands the problem. Put the same person on radio to appeal for funds for his sports club and he'll change his way of speaking again - because he wants to get his message across to as many as possible. Give the same person a new neighbour from the home counties and he'll start speaking with him in dialect but will most likely start to reduce his own dialect and even adopt a bit of the new neighbour's just to aid Communication and to make the neighbour feel at home. These are natural Changes to aid Communication. The speaker isn't often aware that they are making Changes. However, if this same speaker then goes to the social club and starts speaking to his mates in the same way he's talked to the doctor, on the radio and with his neighbour it's not about aiding Communication. They already understand his dialect. There's no need for change. Then one of two things has happened: he's "putting it on" or he's adapted to a new way of talking because of the frequent use. He'll be speaking standard English with an accent. The accent is hard to lose. Not impossible but hard. So each of you is correct in some way.

Definitely not pulling anybody's plonker! I haven't Heard a whisper about it.

Dr. Hook? Sounds just like Björn Skifs.

I'll miss you Wilf!

Is the power station no longer with us?

Very best wishes for Cristmas and the coming New Year.

Happy Birthday Eileen. Hope it's a good one.

Still a few minutes to go Before it's over so here's a birthday wish from me as well.

That's a tremendous Disappointment.

#2 (Still not able to quote anyone) Great photo. We haven't changed a bit, have we Maggie!

Sorry! that should have been VERBOSITY not BERBOSITY. What was my 'crime' ? I was being loquacious on the one occasion and verbose on the other. In other Words I was talking when I should have been listening to the teacher. Pleased to see they've got these underlinings and crosing out problems sorted out. Just the mid-sentence capital letters to sort out now - and the new problem, I can't quote anybody's post!.