Canny lass

It would be interesting with a date of birth, approximate year would do, so that I can find them on the census and see what the adress was. The names of Fredericks parents could be useful if it was before 1911.

You're right there, Vic!

The more heads the better!

Sounds nice but at 2 million quid I doubt if I'll be one of the 130 people on the waiting list for an Evija.

@James there's nothing wrong with drawing the wrong conclusions from research. Even the wrong conclusions can be very helpful in enabling the research to move forward. Your last post gave me a whole new angle on the area. Previously in my research, I've followed the family from Crofton through Cowpen, Bebside, Bebside Furnace, across the river to Walker Road then up to Glebe Road and eventually to Netherton where I was born. Until now I haven't thought about looking at Bebside Furnace area from Bedlington and moving along the riverside as you did in your last post. Now I can see it clearly. As I've moved along the riverside from the furnace area towards Bedlington, the last house on the riverside has always been Rose Cottage - next door to Clock House. Had I gone further, into the next parish I could have been certain that I was correct in my conclusion much earlier. I've been using the census for Cowpen and Bebside which 1891 enumerates "all that part of the township of Cowpen west of the railway (...) and houses along the riverside as far as the Bebside Township boundary". Had I just stepped over the boundary I would have found Toll Cottage. For a while I considered it also as Rose Cottage but thanks to your input I see clearly that it is not, because Toll Cottage lies exactly on the parish boundary but not in the Bebside Parish I've researched. This first map from 1866 has a lot of damage but it shows the boundary clearly with Toll House (Green) immediately to the left. I've marked Clock house (Blue) and Rose Cottage (Red). All can be seen clearly on the second map from 1897. (same colour marking). Now i'm happy! The location of Rose Cottage is decided!

It's very late but it is still Friday: What is a glockenspiel? In which European city is the Spanish Riding School based? According to the nursery rhyme who pulled pussy out of the well? Which cook has written a book called Winter Collection? In The Last of the Summer Wine who is married to Nora? Born in 1452 who recorded his scientific notes in mirror writing? Who became US president after the assassination of Lincoln? The World Professional Championships of which sport moved to the Lakeside Country Club, Surrey, in 1966? Who was known as ‘The King of Skiffle’? In the Bible, which two birds did Noah send out from the Ark? Who wrote The last of the Mohicans? Who owns Dartmoor Prison? I’ll bet you didn’t know …. George Michael was sacked from his Saturday job at British Home Stores for not wearing a shirt and tie in the stockroom. Answers on Thursday next week.

Answers to last week's quiz: Aldwich Charles I Joseph Managua Welder Ian Botham Tchaikovsky Brandy 8 Dana Anthony Eden 6 New quiz tomorrow.

You make speeches at home? What your poor wife must have to put up with!

That's too complicated for my mind at this time of the day!

In the actual House of Commons?

Thanks for the input @James! This area is extremely important to me as my parents lived in Clock House and I had sisters who were born and died there. I've researched it backwards, forwards and inside out but I'm still not 100% sure of my findings. Bridge House, I'm 100% certain so I try to guage everything from there but I've had several theories along the way and haven't ruled any of them out yet. My own personal childhood memories of the immediate area are limited to taking the bus across the bridge to visit family in one of the rows at the top of the hairpin bend, Stone Row, and nothing more. It would help me enormously to know exactly where the entrance to the woods was. I don't suppose you could point it out on a map for me? I fully agree with you about the gardener's cottage. I feel it seems a bit on the small side for a boiler room or any other sort of power house for industry of these dimensions and it seems reasonable that the gardener had his dwelling near at hand. This was the case at the top of the bend where Cowpen gardens lay.. Getting back to Rose Cottage, I can't agree with you that Rose Cottage, as I call it, and Toll House, as John calls it, are one and the same thing. Here are the differences that I see. for the sake of easy comparison, I am posting these two photos once again but this time side by side: First of all, forget whatever you've been told about size not being important! It really is, at least when it comes to comparing buildings. Toll House shows: max 2 stones width between door and window max 2 stones width between window and gable end Windows 2 panes wide full width lintel stone above and below the window frame No stone surround on windows Rose Cottage shows: At least 6 stones width between door and 'porch' plus further 2 stones width to door At least 6 stones width between window and gable end Windows 4 panes wide No lintel stone above the window Windows have full stone surround Apart from these details the obvious thing that's missing in John's photo of Toll Cottage is Clock house - which would be seen in a photo taken from that angle as there was very little space between them. What do you think? I have a couple of other possibilities for Toll House in mind but it depends on where the entrance to the woods was located. There are several instances in census records of "cottage(s) in the woods" that might fit the bill if their location is right in relation to the entrance. Grateful for any help you can give me here.

You might try the Northumberland Archives,Michael, https://northumberlandarchives.com Thomas Davison has popped up in my reasearch earlier on documents related to Bedlington Colliery - last one dated 1857.

In my family too but they were in coal-mining. They've probably tread common ground. Re the location of the Rose & Crown Inn in the photo:

A fantastic work, researched and written as a tribute to his grandfather who, I'm sure, would be extremely proud of his grandson.

Sorry, editing problems again! continued; On every census record I've waded through over the years for the riverside area, Rose Cottage is next door and to the east of Clock House. There are no further dwellings recorded in an eastward direction along the river. When the enumerator moves from the Iron Works towards the bridge and hairpin bend he records the dwellings in the order: Bridge House (sometimes called Bridge End House), Clock House and Rose Cottage before goung up the hill to Se View, paradise Row etc. In John's picture there is a gate leading into, or out of the Halfpenny Woods. This suggests to me that it is the Toll house and I believe it to be on the riverside (there were several Toll Houses on Lord Ridley's land, at least one up on the hill), as the ground slopes steeply upwards behind it. Comparing John's Toll sign photo and his Toll Cottage photo of 2013 suggests to me that the sign was placed at the right corner of the gable end facing away from the photographer in the cottage photo. A very small portion of that gable end is seen on the right of John's sign photo. It has a very, very short eves over-hang and a tree, behind a block stone wall, immediately to its right. Furthermore, there is a down-pipe from the gutter which leans slightly inward towards the bottom. All three are also present in John's cottage photo. Assuming that the sign is placed to be read by people entering the woods, I believe the Toll Cottage photo to be taken from inside the woods and therefore looking towards Bridge House. Therefore, I think that it may possibly be a dwelling recorded as Bebside gardens in the 1901 and 1911 census. The gardens skirted the river bank on the Bebside side of the river.

Eggy, I'm not sure that I agree with John on this one if he is saying this is Rose Cottage on other sites. January 2, 2013 John posted a picture of what I believe to be the same building but called it Toll Cottage. He also posted the photo of the Toll sign, which you repost above, on the same date - both from his private collection.

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I knew I had one somewhere! The larger building to the right of Viaduct Cottages (sorry, I said Keelmans Row earlier. That was a mistake)

Welcome to the forum, Bhx7! You are correct. The Rose & Crown Inn was located to the west of the viaduct and situated between Keelmans Row and Rose & Crown Row. (Ignore the red star) Census enumerators were creatures of habit who followed a strict route. In the 1901 census, having left the Sea View/Paradise Row area (Bottom right corner of map) he entered the Iron Works area and followed his route including Fergusons Row (where my father was born, 1900) proceding through Old Factory Yard and its offices, he then makes his way downhill to the riverside where he records in the following order as he walks towards the bridge at the foot of the hairpin bend: Green – Rose & Crown Inn (marked P.H. ’Public House’ on the map) Orange – Rose & Crown Row (nrs 1-6) Pink – Bridge House Yellow – Clock House Blue – Rose Cottage, the last dwelling in his district (Cowpen 16)' The Rose & Crown Inn is actually named on this second map from 1897 just 4 years before the census. Thanks to Eggy for the art-work on this last map. As you see, he's much better at it than I am!

The ruin you've queried as Toll House in the picture, is Rose Cottage - according to census records.

Answers to last week's quiz: He tried to assassinate Hitler Doha Bojangles Royal Naval Air Service Mexico Spider Ernie Els Spencer Bay of Bengal James Mason Rangers Luxembourg New quiz tomorrow.

I tried to edit the last post but when i pasted in my text, after the file, the wordsa nd letters ran amok changing font and size here, there and everywhere. I tried to write it direct on site but time ran out for editing. I'll have another go at pasting it in this post and see what happens BUT I'm not going to try and rewrite it if the same thing happens! I looked at the 1911 census and the 1939 register and compared the number and placement of dwellings in relation to three fixed points on Glebe Row: Fountain Inn at the northern end of Glebe Row, Tankervlle Arms and the Alma Inn situated towards the southern end of Glebe Row. We can assume that the position of all three has remained constant. This information was then plotted on a map dated 1922 where individual buildings could be clearly seen. For the 1911 census I give the familiar address – that given by the resident. For the 1939 register I give the official adress - that given by the enumerator as this is the only one available. However, in the 1911 census, all dwellings situated between Arcade and the Alma Inn have the official address, Glebe Row but the residents choose to call it anything from Tankerville Yard to Front Street. Between 1911 and 1939 the number of dwellings in the enumerators area between Fountain Inn and Alma Inn increased only slightly from 59 to 68 dwellings. In 1911 the area from Fountain Inn to, but not including, Arcade lists 28 dwellings. The same area 1939 lists 36 dwellings. Most of this increase can be accounted for by two roomed dwellings being divided into one room dwellings and the five roomed dwelling adjacent to Olivers Buildings becoming five separate dwellings. The area from, but not including, Arcade to Alma Inn lists 27 dwellings in 1911 and this is reduced by one, to 26 dwellings in 1939. In other words there hasn’t been much change and Arcade appears to be consistently situated adjacent to the same yard, Renwicks Yard which is the second ’yard’, respectively the third on the 1911 and 1939 records as the Alma Inn yard was a later addition. Worked fine! I clearly didn't choose 'plain text' when posting.