Canny lass

If the cap fits ....

Which spurious argument would that be? Please enlighten me.

Please explain further. You lost me at "two self-contradictory views".

I thought delirium had set in when flags and number plates suddenly changed to passports. Still not convinced that it hasn't.

I vaguely remember Beadnell's (at the top end) being self-service very early sixties. I and another pupil used to be allowed to miss school assembly on Wednesday mornings to go and buy the ingredients for the class cookery lesson.

Have you taken your medicine this morning?

Big thanks to everybody for sharing their knowledge! What a job that must have been for a full grown man, never mind a 14 year old.

Vic or HPW, do you know what a 'jockier'(or something similar to that word) is or was? Could it be anything to do with pit ponies (I'm thinking of the word 'jockey' here)? I can read the first 4 letters - jock - and the last letter - r - very clearly but the rest is a bit blurred. I found a relative, a 14 year old boy who is noted on the 1911 census to be a "jock(ie)r, under ground".

Thank you everybody for your very kind wishes. Finally got the Christmas tree down from the post box. To cut a long story short, it kept blowing over so I nailed it to the post box where it has since frozen - I know, I really should get out more!

I spend a lot of time in the south west of England and I haven't heard of her there either! Nothing weird about your world Eggy.

You lot are quick off your marks! It's not until tomorrow! Just popped in for my usual evening moan but as you've all been so nice, I'll let you off - just this once! ... and Eggy, who's that strange woman in my garden - or is it Wilf in disguise! Thank you everybody. Nothing special planned for tomorrow other than taking the Christmas tree down from my letter-box - it's a long story!

"Strange days we live in!" Got it in one, bonny lad! As for the rest, I’m just a tad perplexed as to what, if any, relevance science may have to the topic of number plates and flags but I think you may be getting them (number plates and flags) confused with anthropogenic global warming (I read newspapers too).

There’s nothing more to think about 3g. Thomas Barnes has petitioned the British Government suggesting “Union Jack to appear on British number plates after March 2019.” A link to that petition appeared on this thread. I am responding to that thread. My first reaction on reading the petition was that it seemed like a very strange request, for two reasons. Firstly, I have a former colleague in Wales who proudly displays the Welsh dragon on her number plate though, if I’m honest, this is more related to displaying the fact that she is Welsh – and not English. Secondly, many, many years ago I was a Girl Guide. One of the first things I was taught in the guides was ‘respect’ for the Union Flag. I was also taught how to show that respect, by handling it carefully, keeping it clean, folding it in the correct manner and so on. I was never lead to believe that any measure of respect was statutory. While the former made me realize that it is in fact possible to have other flags on British number plates the latter made me realize how old my knowledge of flag etiquette had become. I wondered if the situation had changed since I was a girl, so I thought a little more deeply – and indeed took the time to even look a little more deeply – into the matter. The results of my research are posted above. The sources are reliable. Indeed, one of those sources, the British Government, is the very instance being petitioned! I also reacted to the claim that “everyone” has lost their national pride –deduced from the statement “to give everyone a sense of national pride once again” - the “once again” suggesting that “everyone” once had national pride and that this has been lost. I’m a British citizen, and therefore included in that “everyone”, but I have not lost my national pride. I doubt if many Brits have. Given the triviality of the cause of the said loss of national pride, the lack of a flag on a number plate, I could almost take umbrage at being included. I have seen no evidence during my visits to Britain or in my contact with British people that British pride is even dwindling, let alone lost. British tourism has never been better – much thanks to British national pride. It’s Britain’s national pride that makes Britain so very, very British. To my eyes, all that is shown by this petition is that some 0,016% of the British population are ignorant of their rights in relation to British registration plates.

...which proves my point nicely, Vic. You, and I, have managed to retain our pride in being British without the use of a flag on our number plate. I'm pretty sure most other Brits have too.

It is NEVER illegal to fly the Union Flag or any of the national flags of Great Britain, so Thomas Barnes may fly his flag with pride when, where and how he wishes even today without breaking any laws. Of course, there is a certain protocol to be followed to ensure that it is flown with dignity. It may be flown every day of the year Normal times are sunrise to sunset but it's not illegal to fly it at night when it should, preferably be illuminated. No permission is neede to fly a flag and flags are excluded from most planning and advertising regulations. National flags should not be flown in a worn, damaged or dirty condition as this is considered a mark of disrespect to the nation they represent - but it's not illegal. It is considered improper - but not illegal - to fly the Union Flag upside down. It is equally improper - but not illegal - to use the flag as a tablecloth, seat- or floor covering. So, as the name suggests, the above serve only as guidelines to the cultural etiquette of flag flying. It is not statutory in any way. (Source: https://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british-flags/flying-flags-in-the-united-kingdom/british-flag-protocol/) Like you, I’m still proud to be British. However, my pride has no affiliation whatsoever with a flag on a number plate. I have not lost my national pride just because I own a car with an EU blue side stripe. The stripe doesn’t make me feel any less British or proud. I also own a small, British registered, car which I keep in London for my many journeys in and around the south of England. It does not have an EU blue side stripe but I don’t feel any greater pride when I get into that car. How about you? Have you managed to retain your pride in being British without the need to resort to a car sticker on your number plate? I cannot understand the mentality of Thomas Barnes in petitioning the government of Britain to request something which is already available today, whether that be a national flag on British registered cars or, as you suggest, being able to fly his flag without breaking any laws. There are no flag flying laws to be broken.

If the creator, Thomas Barnes, is a British citizen then he is already British by default. Is there no pride in that? It doesn't need a one inch flag on a number plate to prove your British and proud of it. However, he, and every other Brit, is also European by default - and that's not going to change even after Brexit. Am I to assume that he's not proud of being European? Perhaps he'd rather be Chinese or African? If Thomas, or anybody else for that matter, has lost all his national pride simply because he's got a blue side stripe on his number plate then that's very sad. I have cars with- and without the blue side stripe yet I'm still very proud to be both British and European. Thomas Barnes does not have to jump through any hoops to remove the offending blue side stripe from HIS car. Thomas Barnes does not need to jump through any hoops to get a British flag on HIS number plate. There are four choices of flag available plus the option of no flag at all. I'd be willing to wager that he hasn't even tried despite the fact that it probably involves infinitely less choices (the only hoops he'll have to jump through) than choosing which TV channels or newspapers he subscribes to. I wonder how many hoops he jumped through to do that? If Thomas Barnes is suggesting that EVERY British registered car MUST display a British flag on the number plate then that really would be a 'diktat' - not very becoming of a democratic country. Look again at my flag. Appearances can be deceiving! Are you sure you have one the same?

Well done, Malcolm! I don't know where you get the energy. For future reference: a cold never lasts more than a week. If you've still got any sort of symptoms after that get yourself to a doctor! Don't wait 2 months!

“Union Jack to appear on British number plates after March 2019. Why is this important? For too long the unity of Britain has been allowed to be undermined and now is the time when we leave the EU to give everyone a sense of national pride once again.” I don’t know if the link provided is redirecting me to the wrong petition but that is all I’m able to read regarding the nature of the request made to the British Government. I cannot see any ambiguity whatsoever. The creator of the petition is stating that the Union Jack is to appear on British number plates after March 2019 and further suggesting that its inclusion will restore national pride (hinting that it has disappeared). I am simply reiterating the stance of the British Government on the issue: the blue EU strip on the number plate is not compulsory today. A national symbol, in the form of a flag, may already be added to the plate – with or without the blue EU strip. Those who purchase a new car today have the option of deciding how the number plate should be. Those who purchase a second-hand car have the option of replacing the plates so it can hardly be described as a “EU diktat”, at least not by my understanding of the word – a dogmatic degree. I suspect that the creator may be unaware of his rights regarding his number plate. I am, in the vernacular of ‘the big yin’, shocked, stunned and not a little amazed that anybody could lose their national pride over anything as trivial as a flag on a number plate. Is it being suggested that Great Britain had no national pride prior to the advent of EU, when we didn’t have any flag at all on our number plates. If we are forced to have a flag then I'm having this one!

I can't understand why anybody feels that they must wait until March 2019, or have a petition calling for the right to do so, if they want the Union flag on their number plate. They can have it now if they wish: "You can display one of the following flags with identifying letters on the left-hand side of the number plate: Union Flag Cross of St George Cross of St Andrew - also known as the Saltire Red Dragon of Wales The letters, or national identifiers, you can have are: GREAT BRITAIN, Great britain or GB UNITED KINGDOM, United Kingdom or UK CYMRU, Cymru or Cym ENGLAND, England, ENG, Eng Scotland, Scotland, SCO or Sco WALES, Wales You"ll still need a GB sticker when travelling in Europe if you display one of these national flags and identifiers. […] If you display the Euro symbol and Great Britain (GB) national identifier on your number plate, then you won't need a separate GB sticker when travelling within the European Union." (Source: https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/flags-symbols-and-identifiers) "in the UK,It's not compulsory to even have the side badge at all. In England, Scotland and Wales plates can oficially bear the respective country's national flag, but it's entirely optional. Likewise, UK vehicles can display the UK flag if they choose. These national plates are not recognised outside UK, hence the GB bumper sticker." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_United_Kingdom,_Crown_dependencies_and_overseas_territories#Standard_plates) This page was last edited on 30 July 2017.

There are some things better not to know!

Come on you lot! Up and out of bed this minute! It's no good lying there, holding your head and wishing the world would just go away. It's not going to happen!! Happy new year to everyone (and Happy Birthday 3g).

With all due respect 3g, I have actually seen and photographed the man (and his little helper)! Have you ever seen anything but the box? One excuse is as good as the other - Cheers!

Now I know you've been at the sherry! Everybody who's anybody knows that he lives in the forest behind my house!!

"Coffee"? Tis the season to be jolly is it not?