Canny lass

It's quietened down now a bit but at the time of the Brexit referendum El País reported almost daily on the great joy spreading among Spaniards as the prospect of getting rid of "los guetos ingleses" - the English ghettos - became a possibility.

There's a great discussion in linguistic circles at the minute as to whether or not slaves can be classed as immigrants. It's all because of the wording in the definition. There's no doubt that they were persons - we've seen photos. There's no doubt that they are in a foreign country - they travelled there by boat, well most of them did, and the local natives look quite exotic by comparison. There isn't either any doubt that they lived permamently in their new land - the chains around their legs prevented them from walking, or swimming, home again. It's the little word 'come' that's causing the problem. Did they come to a new land or were they taken to a new land?

Not an immigrant! At risk of sounding like Widow Twankey, “Oh yes you are”, 3g! You’ve just perfectly described your status as ‘immigrant’. You meet all the criteria for being an immigrant; here I’m assuming that you are a “person” and not a cabbage or a bot. Let’s look at the definition again. an immigrant is “a person who has come to live permanently in a foreign country” (my underlining). You say: 1. “I am British”. That leads me to believe that you are a person for, as we all know, cabbages and bots have no nationality. 2. You yourself, despite the fact that the info under your avatar gives your location as “Bedlington, Northumberland”, make no secret of the fact that you have resided in Italy for at least 10 years. I don’t think there can be any doubt that you live permanently in Italy. You wouldn’t need a residence permit otherwise. 3. Italy, if my memory serves me correct, is not a part of Britain. It’s what we Brits, and many other nationalities, call a foreign country. 4. “my documents clearly say resident” (FYI that’s a person “who lives or has a home in a place, not a visitor” (OALD). Residential permits are not handed out on the beach in Italy, or anywhere else for that matter. If you are a resident in Italy then you have physically applied for and received a residence permit in accordance with the …. wait for it ….. European Union’s IMMIGRATION rules. You can read about them here: http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who-does-what/more-information/explaining-the-rules-why-are-there-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en or here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-italy So,tell me 3g, which part of the dictionary definition “an immigrant is a person who has come to live permanently in a foreign country” (OALD) do you not understand?

“I am an immigrant”. That’s exactly what I said. How on earth do you read from that statement that I do not know the difference between a legal- and an illegal immigrant? An immigrant is an immigrant, like you, myself and presumably this Happy fellow you mention. We are, all three of us, immigrants regardless of any nominal modifier you may care to attach. The nominal phrase in my statement, an immigrant, is of the simplest construction. It has one specifying element, the indefinite article an, which serves only to narrow down the reference to a single member of a class – in this case immigrants. To add the words ‘legal’ or’ illegal, serves only to further narrow down the reference. Let me try to demonstrate that. This requires only two one and a half grey cells working so I’m sure you’ll get the gist of it. I’m sure you will remember Mary’s lamb: little, white, fluffy, three legged thing with a penchant for following its owner to an unnamed academic institution? Let’s see if he can help us. We’ll start with the easy bit. · Mary had a lamb. According to The Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary, a lamb is “a young sheep”. So, if Mary had a lamb she was, in fact, the owner of a young sheep (that’s one of those animals that’s covered in wool, says baa and leaves small heaps of ‘dottles’ here, there and everywhere). I have determined that this animal is no particular lamb. He’s just a lamb, any lamb. He’s simply one of a class – in this case lambs. · Mary had a little lamb. Here, the addition of the word little narrows down the field a bit. It tells us something of the lamb’s size. It is not large. However, the fact that the lamb is little does not change the fact that it is still a young sheep with the usual propensities for growing wool, saying baa and leaving small heaps of ‘dottles’ here, there and everywhere. · Mary had a little, white lamb. Another word, another bit of information and we narrow down the field even more. We now know the colour of Mary’s lamb. It is white but never the less it’s still a young sheep. It’s still growing wool, still saying baa and still leaving heaps of ‘dottles’ all over the place. · Mary had a little, white, fluffy lamb. Another word, more information. So we now know not only the lamb’s size and colour but even the quality of its wool. Has the lamb turned into a goat because of this new characteristic? Not on your Nelly! It’s still a blinking young sheep, still growing wool, still saying baa and still sh*tting all over the place. · Mary had a little, white, fluffy lamb with three legs. Do I need to say more! It doesn’t matter how many appendages you dangle from this lamb, it’s still going to be a young sheep. Now let’s apply that to my statement: · I am an immigrant. According to The Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary, an immigrant is “a person who has come to live permanently in a foreign country”. So, if I am an immigrant I must also be a person who has come to live permanently in a foreign country. · I am a legal immigrant. Here, the addition of the word legal only tells you something about the manner in which I entered the foreign country. That is to say, I came with the necessary, official permission to enter and reside. Does that mean I am no longer an immigrant? Does that mean I am here on holiday? It certainly doesn’t. The fact remains that I came here to live permanently in this foreign country and am, therefore, an immigrant. · I am a British, legal immigrant. Another word, another bit of information. You now know that I’m not only a legal immigrant but also that I originate from Britain. Does that mean I’m here to visit my maiden aunt? Does being British take away my immigrant status? I’m afraid not! I’m still an immigrant. I came here to live permanently in a foreign country. · I am a British, law abiding, and legal immigrant. Another word, another bit of information. You now know a little bit more about the type of person I am but being law abiding doesn’t either alter the fact that I am an immigrant. The fact still remains that I chose to come here and to live permanently in a foreign country. In other words: A lamb is a lamb and an immigrant is an immigrant, regardless of any appendages you may choose to dangle from them. Q.E.D I AM AN IMMIGRANT! It’s nice to know we have something in common, you, myself and Happy.

Think medication!

Correction? What correction? An immigrant is an immigrant - whatever their legal status. There's nothing to be corrected.

You should talk Eggy! I wasn't even allowed a vote but even if I had been allowed one, I'm not sure how I'd have used it - or even if I'd have used it. Being as I am, an immigrant, I'll have one foot in and one foot out of EU so for me the odds are even. And now - in the even of my life - even my pension is half and half, though both halves are no longer equal one half having recently decreased greatly in value. It's strange that. My old man is a mathematical wizard and even he can't understand it. He thinks it may have something to do with the B-word. Not to worry, I'll soon be able to buy my whisky tax-free when I go through the airport at Newcastle on my homeward journey. Even the darkest cloud can have a silver lining it seems.

My family as well, Vic - every generation before me, that is. I understand that the explanation I gave may have beeen a bit difficult to understand, but it's nothing to do with you being from Blyth. It's just that we have different areas of interest and expertise. If it's any comfort, I have the same problem with mining related explanations - but please keep them coming because even if I don't understand everything I'm always a bit wiser after reading them. Knowledge shared is a wonderful thing and there's a wealth of knowledge, covering a diversity of subjects on this site: History, mining, computers, politics, Bedlington, and, dare I say it, language. Long may we keep sharing.

Sorry if it caused you offence, Vic. That was not my intention. I think you may have misunderstood my use of the word 'even'. ’Even’, in its adverbial capacity, has several uses. It can, on the one hand be used to emphasize something unexpected or surprising (which I believe is your interpretation here): Even a person from Blyth can say it in a more easily understandable way (and therefore somebody from Ashington, Bedlington or Cramlington certainly can). On the other hand, it can be used to invite comparison of a previously made assertion (as was my intention): Even a person from Blyth (and not only a person from Ashington, Bedlington or Cramlington) can say it in a more easily understandable way. Hope that’s cleared it up a bit.

Quite right ex Bedlingtonian! Blyth it was but the rhetorical impact is the same and I'm sure that even someone from Blyth, could have said it in a more easily understandable way. I wondered why he needed to paraphrase at all and have yet to decide if the slur was directed at the language skills of all Ashingtonians, BLYTHONIANS(?) and Cramlingtonians or the HoL's lack of the same.

Nice one at 1.23 as well: ”In the part of the world where I come from, in Ashington, Bedlington and Cramlington, they will say – and I paraphrase - How dare that unelected panoply of panjandrums and pampered popinjays think they know better”. Paraphrase? Is he serious? To paraphrase is to express the meaning of something in different words to make it EASIER to understand! Any Bedlingtonian or Cramlingtonian would have been more easily understood (not sure about Ashingtonians, as I don’t know enough of them to be able to judge). Ah well, it is the HoL! On a positive note – some nice rhetoric touches. I particularly liked the strong alliteration in “panjandrums and pampered, popinjays” and three is truly a magic number is it not! And, the A, B, C (in that order) of Ashington. Bedlington, Cramlington is also a nice threesome. Oh, Lordy. I almost thought I’d died and gone to a rhetorical heaven!

Same here but the prettiness of him was questionable.

If the cap fits ....

Which spurious argument would that be? Please enlighten me.

Please explain further. You lost me at "two self-contradictory views".

I thought delirium had set in when flags and number plates suddenly changed to passports. Still not convinced that it hasn't.

I vaguely remember Beadnell's (at the top end) being self-service very early sixties. I and another pupil used to be allowed to miss school assembly on Wednesday mornings to go and buy the ingredients for the class cookery lesson.

Have you taken your medicine this morning?

Big thanks to everybody for sharing their knowledge! What a job that must have been for a full grown man, never mind a 14 year old.

Vic or HPW, do you know what a 'jockier'(or something similar to that word) is or was? Could it be anything to do with pit ponies (I'm thinking of the word 'jockey' here)? I can read the first 4 letters - jock - and the last letter - r - very clearly but the rest is a bit blurred. I found a relative, a 14 year old boy who is noted on the 1911 census to be a "jock(ie)r, under ground".

Thank you everybody for your very kind wishes. Finally got the Christmas tree down from the post box. To cut a long story short, it kept blowing over so I nailed it to the post box where it has since frozen - I know, I really should get out more!

I spend a lot of time in the south west of England and I haven't heard of her there either! Nothing weird about your world Eggy.

You lot are quick off your marks! It's not until tomorrow! Just popped in for my usual evening moan but as you've all been so nice, I'll let you off - just this once! ... and Eggy, who's that strange woman in my garden - or is it Wilf in disguise! Thank you everybody. Nothing special planned for tomorrow other than taking the Christmas tree down from my letter-box - it's a long story!

"Strange days we live in!" Got it in one, bonny lad! As for the rest, I’m just a tad perplexed as to what, if any, relevance science may have to the topic of number plates and flags but I think you may be getting them (number plates and flags) confused with anthropogenic global warming (I read newspapers too).