Picnic Tables At Furnace Bank

[curly]

I am absolutely disgusted in some people

2 of the picnic tables in the grassed area at the base of the furnace bank have been burnt to a crisp.

these brainless morons.................( fill in your own words in the gaps)

the act must have been deliberate.

IDIOTS

[Brett]

Seen this in The Journal this morning. Have they really got nothing else to do with their time?

Not like setting a picnic table on fire in the wettest months since records began could be an accident. Definitely puts a dampener (bum tissh) on the efforts the rest of the community is putting in to rejuvenate the area.

Something for the kids at Gallagher Park perhaps to keep them occupied?

[Keith Scantlebury]

Seen this in The Journal this morning. Have they really got nothing else to do with their time?

Not like setting a picnic table on fire in the wettest months since records began could be an accident. Definitely puts a dampener (bum tissh) on the efforts the rest of the community is putting in to rejuvenate the area.

Something for the kids at Gallagher Park perhaps to keep them occupied?

Same old, Same old. "There is nothing better for them to do" BOLLIX !!! How many times have we heard that being said over years? Whether they have nothing better to do or not, this does not warrant wanton vandalism in any shape or form.I dont think for one minute that those responsible for this are children, therefore we should presume that they know right from wrong, making this act of destruction even harder to understand. However, I do agree that there is a lack of facilities for the kids ( same old, same old) and there needs to be something for them to do, but, do events such as this offer any incentive for anyone to help them get the facilities they want.? I would really like the people responsible to be put in front of the magistrate with the toughest reputation, with the people who paid for the tables, the people who worked hard erecting them, some of the people who have now been depraived of using them and the police. Collectively I think they may come up with a suitable punishment and somehow I dont think "something to keep them occupied at Gallgher Park" would be considered.

[bediesathome]

i lived at bedlington station from 1952 till 1970 i found it to be a nice place to live allways tidy and clean no rubbish to be found on the streets . what has hapened to the place ?

[Adam Hogg]

i lived at bedlington station from 1952 till 1970 i found it to be a nice place to live allways tidy and clean no rubbish to be found on the streets . what has hapened to the place ?

It is called the end of Bedlington Urban District Council and the beginning of Wansbeck District Council.

[P.A.W.S.]

The "nothing to do" argument holds no water. Our kids had even less to do, but always managed to find something non-destructive without wandering the streets creating havoc. We'd often have to count the pairs of shoes at the foot of the stairs when they had friends in. How many of the parents of these lost souls take an active interest in their own kids? If they're so desperate, perhaps they could volunteer to run a Scout group, youth club or whatever. Fat chance!

[doglover]

I too am disgusted with the damage these morons cause and cost decent people. I agree that these are not children and whoever they are I just can't imagine what goes on in their heads to blatenly want to destroy anything that comes into sight. I really get worried who has bred this kind of individual.

[Vic Patterson]

IMHO, RESPECT! Parents are not teaching it and school isn't allowed too! Yes it is much more than a few kids misbehaving, how do we stop it? Corporal punishment! Fines! Jail! Education! I don't know the answer but I do know and believe most working people don't commit many crimes!

Respectfully submitted!

[keith lockey]

IMHO, RESPECT! Parents are not teaching it and school isn't allowed too! Yes it is much more than a few kids misbehaving, how do we stop it? Corporal punishment! Fines! Jail! Education! I don't know the answer but I do know and believe most working people don't commit many crimes!

Respectfully submitted!

You're right about respect but I don't think unemployment has anything to do with it. We have a new breed of meaness on the streets. They don't respect people, property or the law. Whether that comes from parental upbringing or the society we live in is debatable. We had the Teddy Boys and mods and rockers in the past; the skinheads and the chavs of later decades. Vandalisim is nothing new, the word vandalsim come from Roman times. Evil is an individual trait; whether you're working or not is irrelevant. The people who set those tables alight would have done it if they were employed or on the dole. They should be punished, no one argues that, it's just catching them at it or for someone who knows who done it to come forward, and that, I am afraid, is probably out of the question.

[Symptoms]

Look, much of this is copied behaviour. I blame it on all the 'in your face', aggressive behaviour in the Beeb's Eastenders. Oh, and let's not forget that evil agent of the kiddie's pass to bad behaviour ... Ester Ratzen. Try telling a child off and even parents are treatened by their brats ... "I'll call Childline and report you for abuse". What can you do?

[Vic Patterson]

Keith L,

I don't think I would class these people as evil, but just calling them bad would also be a mild statement! vandalism I believe stems from not being taught respect or pride which I think comes from being a productive member of the community, working, paying taxes, brining up a family etc instead of standing in line for a handout!

The previous discussions regarding the lack of fair distribution of facilities, sporting and leisure etc highlights the frustrations of the youth who don't have many employment prospects, it makes them feel like second class citizens! I think work and good work ethics would solve most of these problems!

Symptoms.

So true! parent teaching is being replaced by the "new media†TV, Movies and games!

[Adam Hogg]

Look, much of this is copied behaviour. I blame it on all the 'in your face', aggressive behaviour in the Beeb's Eastenders. Oh, and let's not forget that evil agent of the kiddie's pass to bad behaviour ... Ester Ratzen. Try telling a child off and even parents are treatened by their brats ... "I'll call Childline and report you for abuse". What can you do?

call their bluff? Then if they continue get a cold wet fish.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Adam Hogg

[Stephen]

Keith L,

I don't think I would class these people as evil, but just calling them bad would also be a mild statement! vandalism I believe stems from not being taught respect or pride which I think comes from being a productive member of the community, working, paying taxes, brining up a family etc instead of standing in line for a handout!

if you pay tax then of course you have paid for the facilities being vandalised - I think that must make a difference to someone's attitude, though as you say basic respect for those who have paid for them should still be expected.

[keith lockey]

Keith L,

I don't think I would class these people as evil, but just calling them bad would also be a mild statement! vandalism I believe stems from not being taught respect or pride which I think comes from being a productive member of the community, working, paying taxes, brining up a family etc instead of standing in line for a handout!

The previous discussions regarding the lack of fair distribution of facilities, sporting and leisure etc highlights the frustrations of the youth who don't have many employment prospects, it makes them feel like second class citizens! I think work and good work ethics would solve most of these problems!

Symptoms.

So true! parent teaching is being replaced by the "new media” TV, Movies and games!

You're absolutely right about not being taught respect, Vic, and watching in your face aggression on TV is not going to help either. But at the moment I am actually caught up in the system where I am unemployed and cannot get the training I want because of Government cuts' (I have spoke on this on another site in depth and I am not going to repeat it here.) It is a vicious cycle and I am frustrated by the lack of empathy in many organizations, but I would never dream of setting property on fire just to vent my spleen. I reiterate, some people are just bad, it's in their blood, they would do what they do regardless of whether there were facilities in their town or if they had a job. Remember that Panorama documentary where a care worker was caught dishing out violence to the residents. You can't tell me he was doing that because he was on handouts. He had a respectable job! So what was the cause there? Upbringing and respect have always been important but there's very little of that shining through at the moment and I personally can't see it getting any better.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Neither can I keith......

[Keith Scantlebury]

Nor me

[Keith Scantlebury]

This taken from Backworth pit's band site:

"The first picnics were held between Blyth, Newcastle and Tynemouth. In the 1930's they were held in Morpeth, until 1952 where they were held in Bedlington until 1992 (the band won the first ever Bedlington picnic!). Then final few years of the picnic, at least it this format, were held in Ashington until the last contest in 2002."

see: http://www.backworth...brass_bands.php

But lets get back to discussing naughty/evil kids and maybe the need to give them a damn good thrashing.

Do you want me to start building some stocks Symptoms

[Symptoms]

Stocks! ... a namby-pamby soft Southern solution to the problem. Meat hooks I say! The cat I say! Electrodes to the .... STOP, STOP, STOP.

[Vic Patterson]

You're absolutely right about not being taught respect, Vic, and watching in your face aggression on TV is not going to help either. But at the moment I am actually caught up in the system where I am unemployed and cannot get the training I want because of Government cuts' (I have spoke on this on another site in depth and I am not going to repeat it here.) It is a vicious cycle and I am frustrated by the lack of empathy in many organizations, but I would never dream of setting property on fire just to vent my spleen. I reiterate, some people are just bad, it's in their blood, they would do what they do regardless of whether there were facilities in their town or if they had a job. Remember that Panorama documentary where a care worker was caught dishing out violence to the residents. You can't tell me he was doing that because he was on handouts. He had a respectable job! So what was the cause there? Upbringing and respect have always been important but there's very little of that shining through at the moment and I personally can't see it getting any better.

I certainly don't mean to imply that only the unemployed are vandals or all workers are not vandals! but as Stephen said if your paying for it your not likely to set it on fire! I see generations of family's that do not look for work, have never even tried, they expect handouts, houses etc, they rely on the conscientious workers paying their bills.

I can sympathize with you in your employment situation (bin there, done that) but things will change if your determined to find work, I travelled all over the UK to keep working, but ended here in Canada so I could get home and see my children every night! don't give up.

Good luck in the job search.

[Malcolm Robinson]

But lets get back to discussing naughty/evil kids and maybe the need to give them a damn good thrashing.

There is a certain unnerving quality here in Flashman's err Symptom's post!

[Symptoms]

Flashman! Just a soft Southerner!

[Canny lass]

Now you've got me on my hobby-horse again. This is gonna be a long one so go and make yourself a cuppa before you start reading ...

I think the cause of vandalism is complicated and has many different factors involved. I don't think we can lay the blame at the feet of any one person/authority. Some very good points have been raised here. Vic, you lay the blame on parenting, schooling and to a degree employment, or rather the lack of these. Symptoms, you say that the media is to blame, partly because of violence on TV and partly because TV has made children more aware of their rights and more prone to demand them. Keith (Lockey) you say that it stems from some innate quality. I agree with you all but I think it's difficult to separate the one from the other. They are closely intertwined.

I agree Vic that parents aren't teaching their children the meaning of respect. There may be a variety of reasons for that, one of which I feel to be the rapidly decreasing amount of time which parents and children spend together. Today, both parents often work, whether it be to make ends meet or to be able to live their lives in the manner to which they've become accustomed. This leaves evenings and weekends for the essentials of running a household. Not much time over for children there! Children themselves don't make it easy either. Today they are more active than ever, have more free time and above all more money than ever, so they are hardly ever at home.

Then there's schooling. Is it a teacher's job to teach children the meaning of respect? I think not. The foundations for understanding the meaning of respect should already have been laid, pre-school, by the parents, who should also know that their responsibility doesn't end when the child starts school. A teacher can reinforce the work of the parents but he/she cannot be expected to replace the work of the parents. Teachers have neither the time nor the resources. I do think however, that a large part of the behavior we see in young people today may have its roots in the schools – not so much in what teacher's are, or are not, teaching there but rather in the political decisions being made concerning the way in which it is taught and even to whom it is taught.

Which form current day education should take is being debated politically, not just here and in Britain but in most places in Europe – and in Canada also I imagine Vic. That in itself is a good thing and it's clear from discussions on this site that there are more than me hoping for a change for the better. Children, it's often said, are our future and schools are society's direct opportunity to influence them. Unfortunately, all influence isn't good influence. Changes for the worse can and do occur. I think you'll agree that some schools have in fact become worse instead of better due to some changes previously made in the system.

If we go back to the 50s and 60s quite a lot of children left school, prepared for university (remember the grammar school system)? Many others left school prepared for a white collar job (remember the streaming system?) and many others left school prepared for a so-called blue collar job. And let's not forget the apprenticeship system which allowed children to continue their education, learning a trade, after basic schooling was completed. The main point here is that those who weren't going on to higher education left school prepared for working. We don't see much of that today.

Then some politician came along and decided that we should do away with this sort of elitism and we did, but quality of education paid the price as standards dropped so that everybody could achieve the same academic result and nobody is any longer 'prepared' for work. I've lost count of how many young people I've met who prefer unemployment to taking a job for which they deem themselves to be over-qualified just because they've got a college education. Nobody wants to start at the bottom and work their way up anymore. Unfortunately, we need people on the bottom rung of the ladder in all industries if the wheels are to keep turning.

While I'm not one to advocate elitism, I am one who believes in educating children to the best of their abilities –their abilities being the key word here. Unfortunately, and I speak from my experiences with A-level students here, the ability of the child is often overlooked. All children are equal and have a right to the same education, they say here, and I agree wholeheartedly. However, I cannot agree that all children are equal in their ability. Nevertheless, all children are expected on completion of their basic schooling to be eligible for higher (A-level) studies. On completion of their A-level studies they are expected to be eligible for university at least in the 4 core subjects. In other words, the goal is way too high for many of these children and I believe this is so throughout Europe as the one country after the other tries to have 'the best' education system, best being measured only in terms of numbers.

The result is many young people who are totally out of their depth in school, many young people who are bored in school and many young people who really would rather be anywhere else than in school. For these children every day is a nightmare when they are constantly reminded, by the mere fact of not coping, of their academic shortcomings. Ironically they are rarely praised for their practical skills though many are enormously gifted. It's theory which counts! Can you imagine what it would be like to be obliged to go 5 days a week for up to 3 years to a job that made you feel like that?

These children don't really want to be there. Many know they are out of their depth but they feel the pressure from society – and peers – to be there. It must be soul destroying!

There, I believe, you have the root of the problem. A lot of the bad behavior starts here, born out of boredom, frustration and a feeling of inadequacy that drives youngsters to 'stand out' among the crowd in other – unfortunately, less socially acceptable - ways. Many are cheeky to teachers and deliberately cause disturbances in class for no other reason than to get a minute's respite from the pressure caused by being there. I think Keith (Lockey) this might be the group you are referring to, who would be the same, whatever the social or employment conditions (in today's system I might add). You call them bad, and doubtless some of them are, but really it's sad.

And the downward spiral doesn't stop there. We don't have to look too far to find one of the greatest threats to schooling today – an all too rigid application of human rights, which Symptoms has already touched on, would appear to be eroding the very foundations of what little educational system there is left. The reason is quite simple. Human rights are based to a certain degree on a liberal, anti-paternalistic way of thinking. That is to say: it's wrong to govern what people do both during and with their lives, as long as what they do doesn't encroach on other people's right to do what they want to do.

We can then ask the question - How does this relate to children? Take the Montissori schools for instance. From day one it is the child who decides where they want to do their work, what work they want to do, who they want to work with etc. In the ordinary state run schools, at least at high school level, they decide which subjects they want to do and later, which ones they want to drop. Later they are given almost total responsibility for their studies.

Nobody wants a 4 year-old to decide what he wants to eat. Nobody wants to see 6 year olds running around the streets at all hours and nobody wants a 13 year old to decide on what sort and how many drugs they should take. Despite that, there are plenty of politicians and pressure groups throughout Europe who campaign diligently for the child's right to decide his/her own future.

However, there is one really big difference between children and adults which leads me to believe that children should not be subject to the anti-paternalistic principles and that is quite simply that CHILDREN ARE NOT MATURE!! To not be mature means not being able to make all sorts of informed decisions. Children have not acquired the necessary knowledge or the life experience to be able to do this. Learning to make decisions is part of growing up and, correct me if I'm wrong, growing up is a part of childhood.

As adults shouldn't we be aware that a child's right to freedom of choice is somewhat restricted by immaturity and as adults shouldn't we be doing what we can to resist the political pressures which seek to widen the child's sphere of autonomy? At the same time let's remind parents, who de facto have the right to make decisions on behalf of their children (consent to surgery, to mention just one instance), that the wishes of a child are not always in agreement with what's best for the child. Children need boundaries to feel secure and a natural part of growing up and learning about the world we live in is that we continually test the boundaries. We need to know where the limit lies and how far we can go. Just knowing gives a sense of security and parents need to know when to say yes and how to say no. Parents should take Adam's advice (well done Adam) when they're 'threatened' and call their children'sbluff. It's a pretty empty bluff if you know you're not abusing your child. Better still offer to go with them and make the report.

Feeling a lot better having got that off my chest!!

[Malcolm Robinson]

I agree with most of that Canny lass,only one thing it sounds as if its going down the road of an excuse.

I do believe children need boundaries and I also believe they should be left to be children and not be almost forced to grow up too quickly. Of course that means parents have to be parents not try to be friends to their offspring.

The problem I have with the thread title is that even if caught, and the News Post Leader reports arrests, is that they will almost get let off. Last Xmas the tree in the Market Place was vandalised and the culprits caught. They didn't even have to make restitution for the damage and instead the rate payers have had to cough up more to replace the damaged lights.

[mercuryg]

I'd like to chuck a little something in here, and I may be at odds with some of what has already been said, or may be repeating bits.

The thing is, most of the youngsters I meet these days are great.

Those that set fire to things for a laugh are very much in the minority. There has always been a small proportion of people who do this sort of thing. There always will be. They are the idiots who spoil things for everyone else.

I agree with Malcolm that they will, if caught, be given little more than a slap on the wrist, and therein lies the problem.

[Canny lass]

Couldn't agree with you more, Mercuryg! They are in the minority and as I pointed out very few get praised for the things they are good at unless it's of an academic/theoretic nature. However, I think this minority group could be a lot smaller

• if schools accepted that children, while equal as far as their rights are concerned are not equal as far as their ability is concerned.
  
• if the aim in schools was for each child to develop as far as possible within the scope of their ability, rather than aiming for a pass for all at the same level.
  
• if parents were better att setting boundaries
  
• if we stopped treating children as adults the minute they are born - or at least by counterbalancing their rights with their responsibilities.
  

Malcolm, I'm not trying to make excuses for these children, or their parents. I'm trying to find reasons for their behaviour. If we don't find the reasons, then we've no chance of changing the behaviour. I really believe thera are many youngsters who go down this road who could be saved the journey if only they had the right map to follow.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Canny lass