Sorry 4g missed the bit on optional extras(hard drive)Yes they are,but I mentioned this in the Forza thread, the arcade version consul does not have enough memory to load both discs to play this game to its full extent, I need the optional hard drive, which I have but on my banned consul!Just thought of this, they are selling forza motorsort3 with this consul knowing full well that it will not load on them! This is the first game to be played on this consul, so what happens if you have another game, god forbid, will this game load. Now there's a thing!