threegee

Can't be my pseudonym: I spend at least 15 seconds on Google. Obviously includes the Swedish SDP there!

All true!

I think that epitomises the differences in our thinking. You focus on the minutiae and have a biological need to be logically correct all the time, and I see the bigger picture. Do you have Germanic ancestry? They are absolute masters of detail, but are alarmingly easily led... so, get all the big decisions terribly wrong! (Hello, Mrs Merkel!) A side-splitting and masterful parody on this was in that brilliant film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059797/ Of course this was made long before the EU, but should be compulsory viewing for EUphiles everywhere - though you might need to be a pilot to appreciate some of the subtler humour. Maybe it's no longer fully PC, but I'd say it actually celebrates the cultural differences. BTW it's "referring"! (Though I have to admit that it was the spelling checker that spotted the mistake.)

I don't write for the DE - honest I don't! PURPLE SURGE: Furious Tory members defect to UKIP in protest at Theresa May's victory

You are not wrong, but there's no riddle either: re-read post #6 on this thread.

I scan them for keywords like threegee, objective and subjective.

No "Oh dear!" about it; more like Oh bloody brilliant! I'm utterly delighted that I didn't foresee that the Murdoch press could so very easily steal democracy from ordinary Tory Party members. They are seething mad about this in the constituency parties. There's not a shadow of doubt that Andrea would have been elected by ordinary members, and would have been tough to oppose. This is worth a million and a half more votes to Ukip - the only truly democratic party we have. Add in the huge number of voters that an entirely dysfunctional Labour Party is now bleeding, and four million votes was just an opening shot in the real class war. British politics are about to move into the 21st century even earlier than I reckoned.

The worst nightmare for both Labour Parties! (Though the Corbynistas won't mind as much, as they really don't want nasty power; it means they have to come off their cloud.) Imagine someone who sticks up for British values that there's no way they can rationally label as a racist. And, if that someone comes from a working class staunchly Labour-voting home and can't be labelled as a toff - Oh how they loved to label Nigel as a fat banker!. Then, if that someone has the clarity of thought and analytical mind of a barrister, and the experience of a real jobs in both the city and the law, it's a triple whammy for woolly-minded liberal lefties everywhere!

Yeah, fruitcakes and swivel-eyed loons. They'll never have any impact on UK politics, let alone achieve their objective of the UK quitting the EU against a completely united establishment. Oh, look! Here comes Steven!

I don't think you've thought this one through! It's done and dusted. Coronation time!

My honourable friend is absolutely right. I unreservedly withdraw my uncalled for remarks,.and seek the forgiveness of the house.

Yes! And a great day for Ukip! The establishment has spiked her bid (and principally the Murdoch press). You aren't going to like this!

OK I will try and use little words for you - the thing is I don't believe in talking down to people, and the fact that they might miss a few of the subtleties is immaterial in the general scheme of things. I don't set out to insult the intelligence of others, but the Remainians seem to make a religion of this. It's pretty pointless picking out individual paragraphs of what I've written if the standard counter you have is Sheesh, sheesh. Try re-reading what I wrote objectively, and without your sense of moral outrage. I voted for the EEC. I'm ashamed of that, but I had an excuse for believing lying politicians. My principal excuse is that I was wet behind the ears at the time. What's your excuse for falling hook line and sinker for all the EU is our future bilge? You do your best for future generations, and that's what both I and my daughter did. You use your life experience, which is something they will only acquire through time. No one much under twenty has the life experience which enables then to make a balanced judgment on how the country should be run. We are too impressionable at that age and have little perspective. Lowering the voting age is a crude politico's tactic. They use the excuse of widening the franchise and furthering democracy, but in fact they are $^%^ scared of democracy (c.f. the Liberal "Democrats"). If the EU could get away with it we'd see a directive that the universal voting age must be fifteen. Every time I discuss this with a EUphile they preface anything they say with the excuse about how they know that the EU is broken, but they have considered thing and that it's better that we fix it from the inside. This would be fine if anyone inside wanted to fix things, but from the perspective of the vast majority of Euro politicos everything is just hunky dory. As long as the cracks can be papered over, and the debt mountain can still be added to, and unaudited accounts can be ignored, and the unjustified salaries and expenses keep on flowing, there's nothing at all to fix! Anyone who has had a glimpse of the inside of the EU monster knows this its true; so why the pretence? The EU can't even tackle a simple straightforward reform like the Brussels-Strasbourg charade - and these people profess that they have the solutions for all Europe's problems. Well, I'm tempted to answer Sheesh... I haven't stopped "beating my wife yet" because I never started beating my wife. Nigel is one of the bravest guys around. No one has "shafted" anyone, though fools have been rescued from their own folly by the ever-stumbling democratic process. The UK will prosper. If Scotland is dumb enough to separate rUK will prosper even more. There is nothing to get animated about because the future is just fine, and democracy has received a long overdue shot in the arm. Above all our children and grandchildren now have the opportunity to use the very same democratic process - something which we'd surely have robbed them of if we'd voted to "Remain".

Are you talking about the private pensions that have just surged in value following the post-Brexit vote UK stock market boom? (Whilst other European markets have fallen). Those living in the continental EU have been here before on the value of the pound to the Euro under Global Gordon. The "weak holders" sold up and left years ago. It's just a matter of time before there's a return to the pre-Euro local currency devaluations that ex-pats in previous generations came to thrive on. No ex-pat in their right mind keeps anything but immediate living expenses in a Eurozone bank (a bit like the locals really ).

No such thing! My daughter, for one, was concerned for the future of the grandchildren and voted accordingly. This pretty much goes for all Leavers I've discussed this with. They are - to a person - very rational people. The sheer arrogance of the Park Lane type "remanians" - that only they voted for all the right reasons - is breath-taking. Ordinary people might not be able to express their hopes and fears as eloquently as the Guardianista mob (and they are a mob), but that in no way indicates that their hopes and fears are any less moral, or less grounded in reality. By contrast, many of the Europhiles I've talked to display a sort of religiosity about all things EU (which they deliberately conflate with Europe), and are incapable of taking part in a rational discussion. They simply don't want to know about the overwhelming negatives, or hear about what it really means for people in southern Europe. There is clearly something lacking in their lives that they feel a need to belong to such a dysfunctional and outdated concept. The diminishing number of EUphiles will shortly be likened to the people who, even today, long for the return of the former Soviet Union.

You really should join the Cameronite Tory Party, as more often than not you are singing the same tune these days. (Yeah, and apparently twenty of the scum are going to resign if Andrea becomes leader - I wish!) It's not the tune of constituency parties though, but that of aspiring internationalist elitists who also don't actually believe in democracy, and of course the tune of Rupert Murdoch, who is now orchestrating the smear campaign on their behalf. But, yes, I know: it's the only available route to the NWO, and (like Stalinism) we'll iron out the inconsistencies along the way. - you'll see! Curious that the same people who fell hook line and sinker for Stalinism also fall for the international capitalism by proxy mantra: any country but your own; any race but your own, and any religion but that of your own country! Have you coughed up your £3 to vote for Jeremy yet? As many times as you can afford, please!

I will tell you exactly how they are feeling: they are ecstatic they have their country back and are planning ex-pat liberation day parties in the sun. They are still proudly displaying Leave.eu stickers on their cars (photos on request). They are cheering on the locals to be as bold as the UK, and end the misery, unemployment, and zero growth that has persisted since the adoption of the Euro. They didn't buy Cameron and Cleggie's lies and are amazed there are idiots back home who did. Brits have always lived in the Med and their retirement money is desperately needed (as are the earnings from many locals who go to work in the UK as there are no jobs in Southern Europe). They like Europe, Southern Europe likes them - all hate the EU! Sorry to dent your illusions with some objective facts.

Like JCJ you don't seem to understand mission accomplished. Juncker though doesn't understand that some people enter politics for reasons of belief and commitment, or that there could possibly be any motivation other than pursuing a work-avoiding highly lucrative career. That really says it all about the EU.

I have news for you Merc... the EU is in a lot weaker economic position than the UK. It does not have all the bargaining chips that the Europhiles would like to attribute to it. The euro-politicos trot out the cant that you can't have all the advantages of "the single market" without all the political crap - well, that's only fair! Well... life isn't fair, and when you build your castle on sand you shouldn't blame the tide for washing it away. When reality strikes it will become evident that we can trade with the EU on more or less the same terms as we do now because it is to their overwhelming advantage that we do. All that is needed is a face-saving exercise for politicos - business people will take care of the rest. Of course this might be overtaken by events, and the whole thing might collapse a lot sooner than even people like me predict. c.f. The Soviet Union. Nothing is for nothing with the EU, and the whole outdated political project hinges on creating a dependency on the almighty EU political structure. Well, the EU's wings have already been clipped and Brussels doesn't have any more of other people's money to throw around to buy its influence. There's already a £20BN black hole in the budget to be plugged, and you can imagine the outrage in the UK now when the extra demands roll in to help plug this deficit pre us giving formal notice that we are quitting.. The business people you talk about have their own accounts scrupulously audited, and are fully aware that the EU survives by deceit (and the fact that they haven't had their accounts audited for twenty odd years). It's a political not a business construct, and to attribute anything economically sound to it is to buy into the deceit.

No, it went the way it did because the majority of people in the UK don't go along with the idea that we should commit auto genocide in order to fulfil the dreams of an international elite who are untouched by the practical effects of unlimited mass economic migration. Then, there are the Marxists who will read racism into everything, and attribute racist motives to what is in effect the very least racist nation in the world, and the one that fully understands that its magnificent past (which they also decry) is in no small part due to (controlled) immigration. I wonder which group Sym falls in here? ...and because just as many (indeed more) voted "Remain" for entirely the "wrong" reasons as voted Leave for the "wrong" reasons. But, the arrogant Remainians won't accept that truth either. Their's is the moral high ground - and this is surely true because it says so in The Guardian and on the BBC.

And... without the UK's billions where do you suppose Brussels is going to get this grant money from? The EU as I see it from here is on the verge of economic collapse, and once it becomes clear to German taxpayers that they alone are funding the whole charade, Merkel will be out of office quicker than a David - I will remain PM following a Brexit vote to guide the country - Cameron resignation. And... why would any sane UK business management take such a grant, only to be subject to EU bureaucracy (and the near infinite attached strings) when they are already part an enterprising economy with a world outlook, and one which had once again regained its freedom of action? i.e. outside the EU we can do whatever we need to do to retain our industry. Interesting that Tata is now frantically rowing back from its formerly irrevocable decision that it was out of the UK steel business at any price - no?

Utter Brollox! Leave is about the future, not the last 41 years of gravy-train politics for the elites and nothing but punishment for indigenous populations. The sheer elitist arrogance that brands everyone who voted Leave as living in the past makes my blood boil. People who voted out voted for the future: a future of liberty, and not one of Orwellian subservience. AAMOF we need to do a lot more glorification of our past and not be constantly apologising for it like the Little Europeans would have us do. But the past can only be regarded as a pointer to what we can achieve as a united country; no one takes it as a wish list for the future. The real difference between those who voted to leave and those who didn't is that the latter have a bad case of (super)state dependency. It's a disease which this country regularly catches, and when the symptoms become clear we always manage to shake off, and then prosper once again using our own God-given talents and enterprise. Unfortunately each generation has to build up their own immunity to new strains of the disease, and it's never completely eradicated as isolated pockets always remain where people won't take the medication on religious grounds!

May's is not the kind of experience we need! It's no bad thing not to have a career politico. Oh, and forgot to say - as I've been telling friends for months - the next leader of Ukip is Steven Woolfe. And Ukip is about to move to the left, where a lot of the newer ex-Labour members would like to see it. As for the Labour Party: there really isn't one! Can THEY survive, you ask?

It's now obvious that Andrea Leadsom will be our next PM. Having a businesswoman in charge - and not a hack politico like May - has to be good for our country. Ukippers everywhere will be happy about this as she's firmly in the Leave camp, but paradoxically it's not the best outcome for their party. May is very easy to hate, and will inevitably do Blairite/Cameronite things, whereas Leadsom will be "patriotically pragmatic". Anyone who puts country before political party has to agree that - like Brexit - it's the best possible outcome in a complex world! Another "subjective" threegee observation that will be proven right on the nail!