Firstly, i knew someone would quote oz, it made me smile whilst posting the topic just thinking of it. I was once on the bus with my two boys, on our way back from Newcastle, when an elderly lady said " what a lovely, well behaved pair of boys you have there, how do you do it? you must be a really good dad, how old are they?" well, as we were just about to get off, i thought i'd have a little fun.. i said ***** is 4 and ******* is just turning 3. And their is a secret to my sucsess... the boys know if they step out of line i'll beat them to within an inch of their lives, isnt that right boys? at which point, the two boys looked at the lady and nodded quickly before heading for the door. Speachless and with a look of shock on her face, i winked at her, said 'just kidding', bid her good day and got off the bus. Me and the boys laughed at her expression the rest of the way home, and was even mentioned again last year with a big smile. just for clarity, i never beat my boys, i only once ever smacked either of them more than once at a time, and it was thru temper,( i felt so ashamed of myself imeadiatly) so appologies were made and he was took out for a treat as a 'sorry'. this never happened again, and is the basis for my '1 smack is ok, if it does not mark, 2 or more is temper and abuse' theory. I think its the same as the fire, a child can be told its hot a million times, but until it feels that sharp heat for itself, it will always be curious.